Early Symptoms
Tamara:  
I think I really started experiencing problems when I was a kid. There was weird stuff that I noticed. I had a lot of leg pain as a kid, especially if I was active and outdoors. With temperature changes between cold and warm, my legs would always be in pain.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
Leg pain in kids is one of the most frequent giveaways. Kids shouldn't do stuff and then tell their parents their legs hurt.
Tamara:  
Right. It's the weirdest thing because we explain it away by saying, "Oh, it's just growing pains," which I don't even think is actually a thing. I also had other strange things for a kid to have, like carpal tunnel. I do remember falling a lot. I would sprain my ankle very often.
 Worsening Symptoms
So going through life, I dealt with a lot of weird stuff, but I think everything started to become really serious for me in 2022. The odd thing was, I was trying to get healthier, and in that process of trying to get healthier, I was getting worse. Some of my worst symptoms were definitely the pain. I had major joint pain in my knees, my hip (especially my left hip), my back, and my elbows. It was really all over my body, but those were the worst places. I couldn't stand up for very long or walk. I had to use a cane to walk, which did not help my elbows any.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
This was happening to you in your early to mid-30s, right?
Tamara:  
Yeah, I was not old enough to be diagnosed with moderate osteoarthritis. That's what they told me I have.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
Some of the Lyme disease research says it causes pain and inflammation that looks like arthritis, but it's beyond the normal arthritis of aging. So it doesn't make sense for your age. It didn't make sense when you were a kid. And it doesn't make sense that I have a 30-something-year-old wanting to use a cane. This is one of our big suspicions. When you came to me, I thought, "This would be kind of a textbook presentation for Lyme."
Neurological Symptoms
Tamara:  
There were other things I was really starting to experience, like an onslaught of neurological symptoms, which I was experiencing even as a teen. I think the amount of inflammation in my body was causing it to be way more than I could handle. I had twitching muscles, arm spasms, and tingling sensations all over.
It felt like my body was vibrating at times. My hands would get so shaky that I couldn't do things. I love doing art and making art, and it was becoming almost impossible to do that. My hands would shake so much I couldn't even hold the pencil or the paintbrush straight. 
I had really bad balance. I fell down the stairs two or three times, and I would just fall a lot and get hurt, which made the pain even worse. It was so hard to speak. I would stutter all the time. I couldn't find my words. I couldn't get them out.
I couldn't remember what the words were to describe things. Thinking in general was so hard. I had this brain fog. Trying to talk to my kids was difficult. I was trying to homeschool my kids at the time, which seems like the silliest thing now. Just reading something out of the curriculum and then trying to explain it to them—I couldn't even understand it myself.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
You had the physical stuff. You had the neurological stuff with the brain fog and the vibrations. Something was dramatically wrong. And as we've experienced, you started to change a lot of your healthy habits, like eating better and cleaning up your diet. You did a lot of these things that did not fix your problems. In fact, you kept getting worse.
Tamara:  
There were some things that were getting a little better. My digestive system and gut were improving, but not how I had hoped. You just become so hopeless, thinking, "This is my life now."
Testing and Protocol
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
So we met over two and a half years ago, in fall of 2022. If I remember correctly, you had Lyme and Bartonella, right? Bartonella was a big factor for you because it causes a lot of these nerve problems you're talking about, along with Lyme. They both double-whammied your system. You also had some significant nutrient deficiencies. We had to rebuild you from a nutritional level at the same time.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
From your perspective—I'm always interested to hear this from people—how did it go once we started? We started in fall of 2022, and it's now the new year of 2025. How did that healing journey go for you?
Tamara:  
It started with a lot of trepidation. I was so scared to do it because of some of the things I had read about Herxing. I had already experienced Herxing on my own trying to do things independently, and that can be pretty brutal. But it was worth it! Your protocols were so gentle. It's slow, but that's good because I didn't ever Herx to the point where I'd think, "Great. Now I have to be in bed all day for the next two days until I can feel better again." I really liked that it was gentle and slow. That was really good.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
I'm a big proponent of this. I've spent really 10 years trying to help the protocols be smoother. We want to get you better, but you still have to be a mom. You still have things to do. You're trying to keep life operational, and you were a good example of that. You have kids, so we had to move you forward as safely and smoothly as possible. I adjusted the basic protocol for you to try to avoid as many hiccups as I could. Did we hit many with you from your point of view? I know we hit a few.
Tamara:  
There were definitely a few. But some of them were my mistake. I remember I started taking everything all at once. I called the office, and she said, "No, no, you're supposed to wait. You're supposed to space them out by three days." I was like, "Oh, no." So there were definitely a few issues, but I survived.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
We made it through. We worked through all the little problems, right?
Tamara:  
But overall, I've been beyond pleased with how gentle the treatment was.
Recovery Process
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
When did you start to notice life improving? Walk us through what happened after you described all your symptoms. When did you first start noticing things getting better? And what's life like now?
Tamara:  
I think it was probably about six months in when I started to notice, "Oh, I can do this again," or "This isn't as hard as it was before." I think I should have been better about writing things down as we were going through this. I didn't do much of that. But I'd say probably six months, and then it was just constant improvement over time. I kept noticing, "This is so easy now. I forgot how hard this used to be."
Simple things like being able to walk again without having chronic pain made a difference. I remember I used to want to go for hikes because I love doing that so much. But it was like, "Okay, I can go for a 20-minute hike, and then I'll be down for two days, but it'll be worth it." Now I can do that and not be affected. I could go for another 20-minute hike the same day if I wanted to!
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
This is why at visits, I record things and why we try to do progress trackers. Sometimes it is subtle, or people start to notice, "Oh, I can do this now." At first, a lot of your early wins were really simple things like, "I went for a 20-minute walk, but I didn't used to be able to do that."
Tamara:  
Even just walking around my house. It didn't even have to be going outside. Just walking around my house, going from room to room, being able to carry things—that was significant. Before, I stopped carrying things all the time. My kids would carry things for me; my husband would carry things for me. And I'm not even talking about carrying a couch or something. I'm talking about carrying something like a watermelon—something I should be able to carry but couldn't because it caused me so much pain. Standing in my kitchen to make a meal was another thing I wasn't doing. I had to sit on a stool to make a meal.
I don't love to cook, but I do it because I want to eat healthy and I want my family to eat healthy. So that's the best way to do it—at home. Now, doing chores, things around the house, getting things done—it's just a huge blessing to be able to do those things again.
Life Today
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
So maybe around six months, we started getting some positive feedback, which was exciting. Now we're two-plus years later. How's life now, two and a half years later?
Tamara:  
I can do normal everyday activities! Homeschooling has become so much easier. Of course, it's still a challenge because it's homeschooling, but it's become so much easier just to be able to read the materials, understand them, and talk with my kids about them. Even just having conversations with people is easier. It's a very strange thing to almost feel like you're trapped inside your head and not be able to get your thoughts out. It's really hard to describe.
I have a part-time evening job that I do a couple of nights a week, which is also a physical job. I used to do the job, come home, and just crash—couldn't even do anything else for the entire rest of the evening. But now I can come home and still enjoy my evening and do whatever I want. It's not like, "Great, now I'm done."
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
That's usually a big indicator that somebody is better. If you push to do something and then crash all the time, as soon as that stops happening, I know we're making good progress. You can do something and then say, "I'm okay. I can come home and spend a nice night with my family." You can do something else. It doesn't just tank you for the rest of the day.
Tamara:  
Right. That's a good term—"tank me." Even just not living in constant fear of being in pain makes a difference. There was stuff people would ask me if I wanted to join them in doing, and I really had to think about it: "Can I do this? Am I physically able to do this? Is it going to put me in pain for the next two weeks?" Taking on responsibilities was hard. If people asked me to help out with something, I was afraid. Now I'm not afraid to help. I'm not afraid to do things—to walk, to carry things. It's normal stuff, but it's good!
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
The fun part for me is always when I have the visits, and people say, "I'm living more of my life." That's what you kept saying: "I'm doing this, and I'm doing this, and it's going pretty well." That's been fun to watch and celebrate with you as you do those things. 
Natural Protocol
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
Did we do any antibiotics with you on your journey?
Tamara:  
No, thank you! No, no, no.
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
You didn't. So we did this all naturally with different herbs, nutrients, and things like this.
Tamara:  
Yes!
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
I always tell people, I think you can get better with antibiotics, though it's a very hard way to do it. I get a lot of people worried that you have to do it that way. I just say, well, there's certainly very good evidence for the natural herbal approach.
I'm asking that question more specifically because I want people to know that you really can heal with herbs so much of this stuff, even when it's in your nervous system, in your joints, and everywhere in you. It had probably been there for decades by the time we caught it.
I firmly believe the longer you've had it, the better the natural approach works. The antibiotics work better the faster you find it. The longer it's been, the less effective they are.
Final Thoughts
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
As we wrap up here, anything you would like to say to someone who maybe is just sick and feeling hopeless, like they're never going to get relief or get better?
Tamara:  
Yes. I know that when you've been on a long road of just feeling sick, and you've seen a lot of different doctors, it can be really hard to trust a doctor. It can be really hard to believe that they really want to heal you and not just put a bandaid on things.
But I think if you're willing to have patience and willing to make an investment in your own health, and just trust one more doctor, it's worth it. It's totally worth it!
Dr. Kyle Warren:  
Awesome. Well, I've seen so many people go from where you were (very sick) to being healthy. That's the message we're trying to communicate—there is hope. Things happen for a reason. There has to be a cause for why you're sick.
If we can figure out that cause and aim at it, that's probably going to give us our best results. We firmly believe that being on target with what's causing it is the most important piece of the puzzle. For you, we figured out it's Lyme and Bartonella with some nutrient deficiencies, and we were able to fix them.
Over time, your life has really changed. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story with us.
Tamara: